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The Stockholm Dilemma...
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Allan (Memphis) - Sunday 08-13-06 9:05
Hi guys,

With the retirement of Kevin Hull we had Dave Dowson fill in as Stockholm manager to complete the season.

Dave will take over Metropolis full time and rename them...

So that leaves Stockholm open in the 1st Division.

Now, we've had some scenarios in the past where when we lost 1st division managers we didn't always let a new manager take them on but instead "relegated" the team and let a new manager develop a new expansion type team. The concept was an "earn your 1st division slot" rather than "luck into it".

I'll be the first to admit that this hasn't always played out in a clear, consistent fashion.

With that in mind, I'd like to get some feedback on what to do with Stockholm. We could:
a) Leave them in the 1st and let a new manager take over
b) Move "their slot" to the 2nd, let a new manager take over an expansion team and rename them. This would change the promotion playoff from 3 of 6 are in the 1st to 4 of 6.
c) Check the records for any current managers that were in the 1st division of MSWL when they retired a few seasons ago and let them resurrect an old team in the 1st division.
d) ? (other ideas)

So that's where I'm at on this topic. I will make the final decision on what to do, but I'd like your feedback so I can consider that.

Carl (Hollywood) - Sunday 08-13-06 10:15
I would offer Stockholm to any interested current manager. (Tim should jump at the chance, as it is the only way he will catch me on the winning list) If there are no takers, Stoclholm should be relegated to the 2nd div and offered to a new manager. Again if no takers then Stockholm should be scrubed and a new manager offered an expansion roster. I like the build up of history that teams gain, even if passed to a new manager and would avoid renaming the team and players for that reason. Could maybe live with the team being renamed but definately not the players.
Graham (Barcelona) - Sunday 08-13-06 12:54
expansion team - though I dont recall me getting Barca as an expansion team to be honest - I think I just got it as it stood.


Andy (Barnsley) - Sunday 08-13-06 14:05
As a recent expansion team manager, I can only offer two objections to expansion teams.

1. The weakness of the team can be demoralising
2. A new manager with an expansion team would probably do better than me and show me up. :o(

Seriously, though, I like Carl's suggestion. My only concern would be relegating Stockholm to Division 2, as they would be much stronger than the other teams, and possibly distort the promotion/relegation system by keeping a team that would normally have been promoted in the lower division. If there are no takers for Stockholm then an expansion team should be offered to a new manager in Division 2.

Rob (Boston) - Sunday 08-13-06 17:45
I vote for Option B
Graham (Barcelona) - Monday 08-14-06 4:22
I'd like to add that Rob and I voting for an expansion team and hence the possibility of 4 from 6 being promoted is in no way related.

No Siree bob.

nuh-nuh no way

Though I'd say expansion team anyway.



Rob (Boston) - Monday 08-14-06 11:01
umm... yea... what he said! =)
Paul (Bristol) - Monday 08-14-06 17:17
First option should be to keep Stockholm in Div 1. Best to keep the team and their history. I don't much mind if first dibs goes to a previous MSWL manager.

If no one wants to take them on, then I think the option B expansion slot is best. Worst option is to let a new manager take on the Div 1 slot, but then rename the whole shebang.
Ian (Kendal) - Tuesday 08-15-06 10:48
I thought it had always been the rule that once a team had existed for a certain number of seasons and therefore had history, they couldn't be renamed or turned into an expansion team. No matter, I'd like to see Stockholm stay as Stockholm and stay in the 1st division.

Knowing of Al's great dislike of Dave "website down" Dowson, and not wishing to stir the pot, but... :)

If it hasn't been done already, why not just offer Stockholm to Dave?

Tim (Zaragoza) - Wednesday 08-16-06 1:04

Option A. The team is in the 1st Div on merit - no reason to move them. If new manager is not competent enough to keep them there, that is his/her lookout. I'm not sure that I'd go for a "never rename" clause, but definitely not rename this coming season. If reliable manager takes over, does reasonable job and wants to change the name next season (er, 17?)... why not?

As for Mr Smartypants Oakes, I will wave as I go by during the AP Cup. After that the gap will just get bigger. You heard it here first! ;-) Actually, I managed to resist the temptation to resurrect BOP, so I can probably resist taking over SSG even more easily.

Hey, Al, I need more slots for rivalries! I've already used all mine up, and that doesn't include Carl & Oli & Robin (did we talk him into staying?) & BOS Rob! To name a few. :-D

Tim (Zaragoza) - Wednesday 08-16-06 16:03
I'll qualify my Option A choice. I think SSG should stay in Div 1, and should be opened up to any current manager first. If no-one wants to buy a candy striped ticket to Div 1, then look for new manager.
Steve (Asteria) - Thursday 08-17-06 15:56
Well I don't know what used to happen (too tired at the moment to take it all in) but I always thought that the team stayed in the current division and a new manager took it on. But no reason why a current manager couldn't change clubs.

As for the option of a new manager getting an expansion team, this wasn't offered to me but Asteria's previous incarnation (Granada) was recently an expansion team, I think. I won't be applying for the job at SSG.

Dave (Stockholm) - Saturday 08-19-06 5:25
As I am new I dont have any oppinion on Stockholm. Regarding my new posting at Metropolis Heroes . Al Can I e-mail you the new team name yet?Can I change player names please ? Dave
Allan (Memphis) - Monday 08-21-06 19:11
Hi guys,

Okay first off for TG I put something on the Task List for his rivalries addition. I never realized Tim had so many! :-)

Now onto business...

I re-read the replies in this thread tonight to get to a decision on where to go with Stockholm. Before I did that though I realized that every single coach has a team whose "identity" they either created or have "grown into". I think the "grown into" ones are Graham at Barca and Carl at Hollywood. In both cases I believe I had offered up name changes but they didn't want them. And can we ever, for instance, think of Carl managing anything else than Hollywood.

The next decision I came to (perhaps a little of the opposite of the previous paragraph in some ways) is that I DO want to keep the history of Stockholm in the league. Its a long-standing team and I want to see them continue.

The other piece that I looked at was "how good is Stockholm"? Part of a good 1st Division is having a number of competitive teams that can challenge for the title. I don't just want to send a "good team down" because of all the nuances around team names. I think we need to keep a competitive 1st Division. From what I see SSG is still a pretty good team.

With all that in mind here's the plan:
1) Dave wanted to create his own identity so he will get a new team name/players (he's taking on the old MPH).
2) A new manager will take Stockholm.
3) The playoffs will process as normal where the top 3 of 6 earn the right to play in the 1st Division next season...EXCEPT...
4) The 4th place team in the playoffs gets a home/away playoff against Stockholm to determine who is the better team and thus who should be in the 1st Division. This two game playoff will have both teams starting at EL 10 with any injuries thrown out and DP set to 0.

Its a bit unorthodox but it should result in:
1) Stockholm staying in the 1st if they should stay in the first.
2) An extra chance for one of the 6 playoff teams to earn that 1st Division slot.
3) Ideally the better team gets/stays in the 1st and keeps it a competitive division.

Mr. S
Rob (Boston) - Tuesday 08-22-06 19:35
Sounds like a quality plan to me.
Tim (Zaragoza) - Wednesday 08-30-06 16:46
I'm with the Bossman - er, both of them... you.
Dave (Stockholm) - Sunday 09-03-06 16:10
Sounds like a great decision 2 me too!
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